Talking "Fair Kitchens" with Chef Kyla Tuori

Passionate, creative, and undeniably driven, Kyla Tuori’s culinary career began at the highly acclaimed professional chef school George Brown College. Starting her career in fine dining coupled with a marketing background from University of Guelph, made Unilever Food Solutions an ideal fit.
What began as an internship evolved into a career with the prestigious company, and the opportunity to work amongst Unilever’s talented and experienced chefs throughout North America and the Globe.
Through Chef Tuori’s, almost decade long career with Unilever, she has been the recipient of the OHI’s Top 30 Under 30 Award, affiliated with a variety of Culinary associations, and on the advisory board of charitable organizations, such as Community Outreach/Second Chance, which changes the lives of people in need by creating reliable connections and opportunities.

Transcript

Nan Wilkinson: 0:03

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to restaurant radio. My guest today is Kyla Tuori, she is the chef at Unilever and heads up the fair kitchen movement. Welcome to our podcast today.

Kyla Tuori: 0:15

Nan, thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited about this. And also you nailed the pronunciation of my last name. Yes, I always worry about that. It's so important. So yeah, I'm glad I got it. That's fantastic. Well, again, thank you for being being with us today. So I had a few questions and wanted to talk to you. So tell me why Unilever started fair kitchens. Yeah, it's, it seems really odd, right? I think one of the questions we would get like what's in it for Unilever, because, you know, you think big manufacturing company. And we're associating ourselves with this movement called fair kitchens, which, of course, I'm the north, I'm very lucky to be one of the North American ambassadors for. But really, it is just that, you know, being a huge manufacturer in the industry, and seeing what the industry has been like. And so many of us that I mean, that's my role is a chef with them. But we do have a lot of chefs and non chef roles on our team. And they, we've always understood that there is a harmful side to kitchen culture, there can be a negative side to it, and it's a little bit broken. And so knowing all of that we actually on a global scale in 2017, ended up doing a study. And the study, of course, was towards, you know, cooks and chefs in different roles around the world, finding out where there was some core issues and core problems. And it was astounding, the numbers and the percentages, we got back around chefs that we're feeling fatigued to the point of breaking depression, addiction. I mean, the things that we knew, we know, but to actually see those numbers. Right. Very, yeah. Very rattling, as you can imagine. Well, oh, that was 2017 to I mean, take put the pandemic through, you know, put everybody through the pandemic, and I'm sure it would be even worse, if you did that. Yeah, absolutely. And, I mean, it was it was interesting, too, because, you know, okay, so this is happening in 2017. We're like, what can we do? You know, what, like, let's use what we do have as resources as this big company to try to make a change for good. And, and then in 2018, our industry was shook up again. I mean, not that it's not constantly, but there was a lot of very, like, media facing public chef figures, where we saw, you know, stories of addiction, and definitely suicide, and it was know what, like, this needs to be addressed. This is now more public than ever. And we need to kind of take that and do what we can. So essentially, that's why Unilever was involved. It is the face it is my favorite part of my job, as well is working with their kitchens. Well good for Unilever. And for y'all for for doing that. Because, as you said, it is a problem. To me. It's, it's why

Nan Wilkinson: 3:21

the whole culture and I you know, I call it toxic, I don't know if that's the best word to use. But to me, it's the number one reason that we're short on people in this industry. And this has been going on for a long time, as you said, You guys looked at it at 2017. And I think the hospitality the restaurant industry, is, if you were to look at, like you said substance abuse it is of all the different industries. I think it's got the highest I believe, I know it has at some point and I don't know if it's all addiction or what but anyway, yeah, I mean, it's, there's so many different things. And you know, the pressure sometimes can be fun, and sometimes it's just pressure, you know, working in a kitchen, especially in the back of the house. So good on y'all for doing this. That's, that's great. So tell me a little bit so you you guys see the need? So what is fair kitchens movement about like, what is the grassroots of what y'all are trying to do?

Kyla Tuori: 4:15

Yeah, um, so I mean, it's, it's also in the name is, of course to make every kitchen a fair kitchen. But it is about making a change on that global scale. So it's like 17 million restaurants around the world. I'm sure that number was probably different now post, but a lot of making healthier and happier workplaces and the industry as a whole. And of course, that encapsulates a huge variety of different areas because health and happiness are impacted by every single thing that we do. And doing that by creating awareness. Having open dialogue, connecting People and also supplying resources and tools is what fair kitchens is really about. So it's how can we make that change? But it's it's very similar to what you're doing. You know, and, you know, I'm so glad that we've connected because this is a big thing, right? Trying to change a culture that is so embedded. Yeah. And it's like turning a ship, but you need so many people to be a part of it. And it's going to be ongoing. I don't see this as something that's going to stop. That's a constant work and change, I think. Yeah,

Nan Wilkinson: 5:35

no, I absolutely agree. I like that as interesting analogy about, you know, changing direction of a ship. I mean, yeah, it's, it's not going to happen, it's not going to turn on a dime. And it's gonna take a lot of people to do that. So with that, I mean, I know some of the things that y'all have done, I see posts on social media, I see that you guys worked with the Culinary Institute of America to do this training class for managers, which is phenomenal. What, what other things are y'all doing to try to get the word out and to try to make the the differences that y'all are providing the resources for? How do you mean social media, connecting with chefs, we what are the ways you're trying to be?

Kyla Tuori: 6:16

I mean, those are, those are definitely two of the ways. I, again, I just kind of, like I said, took over this role as leading the movement for North America. So it's kind of like I'm trying to make all these new connections and figure out different ways to get out there. So of course, we have our social medias, right, we got contact with think we were just talking about like Facebook, and LinkedIn, and Instagram. And of course, we have our landing page and all that good stuff. But it's a it's also about getting out to where the operators are. And, you know, partnering, of course, with other organizations and groups that have that reach and have the network is a big part of it. Right. And, you know, I think right now, too, we're seeing a lot of kind of, I think post pandemic communing within the industry, if you will, I think a lot of people, you know, everybody's struggling, we're looking for resources, how do we get back into things, even though things are opened up now, we're obviously been so scarred by what has happened. But I think people are taking advantage more of, you know, national conferences, and, you know, affiliations that they can be a part of where they can network. And I think that's how we can be involved more, to make people at least aware that we're there, that we exist, and that we have resources that can help them. But then on the flip side, a big thing for me is finding out what cooks chefs, anybody in the hospitality industry, what do you need that will help support you? How can other people learn from what you aren't doing? Well, you know, it's not all doom and gloom side of things of like, oh, you're not doing this, right. And, you know, you need to be better. It's also, hey, you're doing this really well? How do we share with other people, best practices that are out there that have healthy kitchen cultures that do have a thriving business? Because they have very little turnover? You know, staff loves what they do. So yeah, I think I touched on a whole bunch of different Yeah,

Nan Wilkinson: 8:26

no, you did. You did. And one of the questions I was going to ask you, I think you've kind of already sort of hit a little bit on that. It's like, do you think, like, now is a prime time for some of these cultural changes in the industry? And I think you've kind of addressed that. And I wholeheartedly agree with you. I think that, as an industry, we're coming together a little bit more and, and, you know, we're a hospitality industry, I think, you know, we're trying to be more hospitable again, and, like you said, sharing what's working for people and what's not. And hopefully, that rising tide will lift all the boats because, you know, people love to eat. And so there's certainly room for plenty of businesses out there. And, you know, it's interesting, kind of a side note, one of the things I was thinking, helping the industry and with, with help connects and trying to help is that, you know, sometimes there's people that want other jobs, and this is gonna sound crazy, but what about like work sharing? Where, if, if you if you had a group of restaurants that maybe, maybe I'm, I don't know, line cook at night, but I would like to pick up some extra hours and I'm willing, you know, and you've got a restaurant and you say, hey, you know, yeah, take Nan for a couple of afternoon shifts over here. And, you know, kind of networking like that as well and having it so that you can see who's willing to do you know, kind of work sharing, if you will, I mean, because, again, just trying to fill everybody's needs because maybe you don't need a full time person but you and then that person knows they're going to work with your schedule. I don't know. Just

Kyla Tuori: 9:51

I know. I love that idea. Because I think the other thing that you're hitting on the head there is the fact that okay, One, we get to mostly get into this industry same mostly because we love to cook, we love to feed people, we love to bring people joy, we want to be creative when we can all of that good stuff. And I think giving people variety, which can also sometimes be lacking, as we know from some jobs in the kitchen. So that aspect, in addition to the networking, in addition to treating it almost like career development, right, because percent, yes, it Yeah. So very rare that people move into. And this is something actually that we're trying to address with some surveys, which I know that you you and I had talked about earlier, some some surveys that we put out there, and I can go into more detail with those that are listening on what exactly those are, but we're trying to really identify for potential employees. What's missing? What do they what do they look for when they are looking for a job? What is not currently out in the industry, and I think part of that is career pathing is not 100% 100%.

Nan Wilkinson: 11:07

And even even if you step back from career pathing because I'm sure you and I both know plenty of people that have started out as dishwashers who ended up running a kitchen or owning their own place. But, but even stepping back from that, and you know, not everybody's maybe wants to be the head of a kitchen or own their own restaurant or, but just, I think just looking at the employees as a whole and seeing how you can show that you want to give them value to what they're doing. And another networking thing that I thought would be so cool. And I got something set up on my website that shows us, but is again, let's say you and I have a restaurant in town, and you are Italian, and I'm whatever Mexican. And what if I said hey, man, I'm gonna have each each month on a Tuesday, a slow day from two to three, anyone the restaurant can come in, and we're gonna have a guest chef come in and show you some new dishes that we can prepare, and that can be the waitstaff or whatever, and just have ways to invest again in people to show them new things and to do a training. I mean, it doesn't even have to be it doesn't it can it would be great if it was a career path or training that was grandiose, but it could just be something simple, like, what would you guys like to see, I'm gonna have Kyla, come in. And she's going to show us how to make this Italian dish or this mother sauce or whatever the heck it is. Yeah. And you do you get to meet other people. And it's, it's fun, and it's interactive, and it makes us a community and you're showing that, again, you're trying to invest in their future and training them and teaching them something. And people can do that across the board, any size restaurant, wherever for free. I mean, you can you can provide resources that don't have to be expensive or fancy, to show people that you care about them and that they your your pay paying time and attention to what might matter to them.

Kyla Tuori: 13:05

It's it's it's interesting, because I know that you and I are both also familiar with corporate, corporate business, corporate side of things. And it's almost like we need to take some of our best practices that have been really hold on in that industry and apply them to a certain extent, to the hospitality industry. Yeah, as opposed to sometimes feeling like it's the wild west out there. And we're just getting by and, you know, it's planning and engaging with the staff and having people feel like they're involved in that their opinions matter, and that what they do matters. And, you know, we've been seeing some great examples from some of the chefs that have shared with us, you know, what they do in their kitchens around, you know, team building, and it doesn't always have to be, you know, going out for drinks when your shift is done, right. But it can be, you know, like going bowling with your team, or, you know, just doing regular check ins which we actually at Pier kitchens, we do have some, some tools and resources around and around checking in with your team. So, you know, to make that a little bit easier and kind of guardrails if you haven't had those types of conversations before. Again, I think it's, it's that closeness and, of course, that is going to make for a happier team and therefore a more successful team and hopefully less turnover.

Nan Wilkinson: 14:34

Exactly. I think you hit the nail on the head to just the professionalism of the way we're looking at our employees. And for I mean, everything from a dishwasher. Again, somebody can be hired as a dishwasher, maybe that's all they want to do. Or you'd say, Look, this is where you'll start. And this is again, the career path so that they can see that there's more to it than that and we can keep people in the end St instead of the turnover and the losing people, and we can attract people back into the industry, because I mean, so many people who aren't even in the industry know about the toxicity in this industry. And if we don't start changing that, we're going to stay where we are, or it's going to get worse. Like he said, It's gonna take a while. But that professionalism, I think, is, is definitely a big key to it as well. And just looking at it, like a like a profession. Yeah. So yeah, this is these are great conversations. So as you engaged people, how has it been received? I mean, there are people like, oh, yeah, this is great. And we need this or like, Yeah, I mean, what's the reception been? I think

Kyla Tuori: 15:45

I do the site, because, you know, everybody neatly knows, you know, yes, we should make the industry a better place and good place. Not everything's great. You know, where I actually tend to see some of the divide. This is a two parter is that it's, it's the older generation, okay, of chefs, that they really grew up in the old school brigade system, where it was, you just had to put up with stuff. That's the sweet you had to do to get by. So I'm not even talking about, you know, areas like fair wages, or scheduling or parental leave, I'm talking about just how people are treated, how mental health and abuse and addiction are within the kitchen, there's definitely an old school mentality. And I, that has been a little bit tricky. Knock, again, that they don't realize that there's, you know, good things that need to happen. I think that's part though, that resistance is partially I think, what's holding up some of the change. I think that the younger generation, expect something much different, which is also why we're seeing huge exodus from the industry. Right. And I think the best way that we're going to do this, and you know what, maybe we didn't always approach it the right way. Or maybe it didn't come across always the right way. But I think again, it's about celebrating what people are doing well, and not making people feel as though they're wrong, or that they're doing something bad. I think, you know, kind of being more on the positive side of it, and then showing the benefit to the business. Right. Yeah. Because we know, there's some restaurant owners, but I guess I mean, it's we're in the business to make money. Right? You, right? Everybody is? Yeah, exactly. And sometimes that's the priority for some people at all costs. And I think it's just showing the benefit of that human cost. And how a change for the better will also help their business. Does that? Yeah, yeah. No,

Nan Wilkinson: 18:11

absolutely. And I, you know, I think that, you know, it feels like to me, with the whole wage peace of things people like, oh, you know, they're just throwing, you know, a bandaid on something. And to be sure, I know, it's hard on the businesses, but the wages have been pretty awful. And, again, at the very bottom of the totem pole are restaurant and hospitality workers, as far as industry is, at least in the United States. And so it definitely needed to be addressed. But that's, to me, that's a band aid, not even a band aid, like that should just be like a given like, yeah, pay people a fair wage, right. And so after that is really the hard work of looking at the industry, or at your specific business and say, what more can I do? What is it that people, like you were saying, what do they need? What are they looking for, to want to stay here more long term? I was talking to somebody who's in HR for Hotel Group, and she was talking about the people that she was hiring and what she was paying, and she said to me, she said, I wouldn't work for that. I thought, Well, I mean, not only would you not work for that, but probably that wage is not even don't worry about living wage, like actually, it's probably not even a wage that somebody can really afford to live on. And so you just kind of shake your head and go, well, good luck. You know, like, do you want to know why you don't have people? Well, there you go. And you take that and then you you know, you try to fix that piece and then you go okay, but then your managers like you said, are our crap you don't treat people well or you know, I think in the industry, we've kind of wanted to think of ourselves as badass as and you know, That's great, right? That's that's one thing. But being a being that is doesn't mean you have to be a jerk.

Kyla Tuori: 20:06

Yeah, you can be bad ass and lead a team with compassion and respect and inclusivity I don't think that yeah. It's, um, I was just thinking too about, you know, you look at other industries, like, think about the tech industry, and they're trying to attract, you know, younger generation, etc, etc. And look at all the perks. Yeah. Right. And it's like, why does that not exist in our industry? Yeah. And it doesn't even need to be something grandiose. No, you know,

Nan Wilkinson: 20:41

right. Yeah. Yeah, I know, I agree. And again, sometimes you just have to think outside the box. Again, if you've got this community of restaurants, I say, hey, Kyla, I'd love to share five $20 gift certificates to your place. And I'll give you five of mine. And let's give them out as whatever like you. I mean, whatever you want to do, but, you know, you can say, job well done. Here's, you know, $20 gift certificate to kylus place or, I mean, we have ways that we can do things that really don't have to cost much or any money, but you do have to think outside the box a little bit. And I think that it's just high time we do that.

Kyla Tuori: 21:19

Absolutely. And I it's a what you brought up the leadership training earlier. And I just kind of want to briefly briefly explain it. Because I don't know if whoever whoever's listening to this will have will know exactly what it is. Great. Yeah, please do. So it is our leadership training. And it's not actually it's not just for people that are currently in a leadership position. It really could be for anybody. And it could be front of house back of house. I mean, that's what

Nan Wilkinson: 21:48

I tell everybody. By the way. I said as a don't just have your leaders have it till everybody take it. So everybody's on the same page. And it was with the leaders trying to facilitate so yes, go ahead. Sorry.

Kyla Tuori: 22:01

No, no, please. I mean, because you've also looked at the training, right. So like, your insights into it, I think are phenomenal. And I mean, it also shows, you know, we go back to career pathing, if somebody that's not currently in a leadership position, then does this and it's something they can put on their resume. I mean, that is a great way to help identify people that you do want to promote, like, hey, they are interested, they are taking steps. So the leadership training courses, of course, because everything's online, is virtual online, available to anybody in the world for free. And it is, well 830 minute modules. One of the modules is an intro. So you know, I don't want to be too misleading here. But they are short modules. So you know, you can do one at a time, like one a week or whatever fits your schedule, which is the lovely thing. Yeah. And each of the modules really hones in and has, you know, expert advice, best practices with regards to different areas that are key for managing a team in a really good way. And so we're talking about diversity and inclusion and mental health, conflict resolution, best hiring practices. So having that and doing the assessment at the end, then you get a certification from the Culinary Institute of America. So

Nan Wilkinson: 23:33

it's so cool. That's so cool. Yes. So I almost went to the CIA. And I thought, Okay, this is my way to get something from the CIA with my resume, look, I've got know that it's really cool. Except for the guys went to Johnson and Wales are a little bit like what but anyway, I digress. And Wales will do something with you, too, right. Come on, bring it on. Oh, no, it's fantastic. I like so I think it's great. It's a I need to I need to push it more for people. So thank you all for doing that.

Kyla Tuori: 24:07

I, you know what, and it's an ongoing process, of course, because there's always like, you know, I said earlier, there's always going to be something for us to address, right? Because that's just life. And you know, there's going to be more modules to add, there's more learnings to be had. But that's the beautiful thing about it right, is we're kind of just continue to grow, continue to evolve. And we'll see where we go. Right.

Nan Wilkinson: 24:36

Well, I certainly appreciate Unilever and y'all and the fair kitchens movement, because again, we were primed. This is the time to I think really see some major changes. I think it's it's sort of out there for the taking, if you will, and we just need to get the word out and bring more people together because there's power in numbers and yeah, I'm excited about the future. think it's gonna take a while, like you said, but I'm really excited about trying to excite the industry and get some new people back in and see if we can get this. Get us going again and get some fire and joy and fun going again in this industry.

Kyla Tuori: 25:14

I'm with you. I feel very optimistic. Because we just can't We can't be without a restaurant industry. Yeah, I saw a comment. I love reading comments and things. And this guy had said, like, oh, whatever restaurants are closing, you don't need that many. And I'm like, Oh, we live under a rock. Like, it's part of our culture. It is thriving industry. So I feel good because we need it. It's the

Nan Wilkinson: 25:43

it's the most primitive thing. Food and sharing. And yeah, absolutely. We're in the best industry. And that person was just wrong.

Kyla Tuori: 25:54

Yeah, like I said, he, you know, he probably had access to the internet for one day, and just like lives in a cave somewhere. So yeah, exactly. No, and,

Nan Wilkinson: 26:02

you know, and I, I am really proud of our industry, it's, you know, as always, has been a very resilient industry. And I have seen some amazing restaurants come through this pandemic. And just with flying colors, really, and, you know, they kind of they pivoted, and they're like, Okay, what are we going to do? I mean, you know, they are, they are an industry where people kind of, you know, you have to react quickly to things. It's not a slow paced i Let's talk about I mean, you know, they're an action group. And so I'm really proud of everybody, and all they've done to get through this. It's, it has been, it's been tough. And I'm excited to see what I can do and what fair kitchens and others can do to help elevate them, keep them going and excite new people to come into our industry.

Kyla Tuori: 26:48

Absolutely. And I just want to say to Nan, like, thank you for what you're doing. I know, it's another full time job, but because it's you love it. And I think that what you're putting out there is can be a huge help. I know that because I know what your future plans are, too, which will be an amazing help to the industry. So I

Nan Wilkinson: 27:08

hope so. Yeah. I appreciate it. I hope so will kind of like thank you so much. I know that I'm I'm hoping you at some point will be back with me again on the podcast, and I look forward to doing some great things to help the industry with

Kyla Tuori: 27:20

you. Absolutely. Well book it right now.

Nan Wilkinson: 27:23

Sounds good. Sounds good. Thank you so much again for being with us.

Kyla Tuori: 27:27

Thank you so much.